Tell us what you really think

Gerald Kaufman, a British politician who was raised as an Orthodox Jew, delivers a blistering attack:

"The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from Gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians," he said. [...]

"I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants," he said.

Kaufman urged the British government to impose an arms embargo on Israel.

"My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town. ... A German soldier shot her dead in her bed," he said. "My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza."

And Amira Hass offers a lesson on current events:

History did not begin with the Qassam rockets. But for us, the Israelis, history always begins when the Palestinians hurt us, and then the pain is completely decontextualized. We think that if we cause the Palestinians much greater pain, they will finally learn their lesson. [...]

The siege of Gaza did not begin when Hamas seized control of the Strip's security organs, or when Gilad Shalit was taken captive, or when Hamas was elected in democratic elections. The siege began in 1991 - before the suicide bombings. And since then, it has only become more sophisticated, reaching its peak in 2005. [...]

Gaza is not a military power that attacked its tiny, peace-loving neighbor, Israel. Gaza is a territory that Israel occupied in 1967, along with the West Bank. Its residents are part of the Palestinian people, which lost its land and its homeland in 1948.

As I keep saying, the strongest voices condemning Israel's crimes are those of Jews themselves—and I have nothing but respect for their willingness to do so, especially now.

Regarding Hass's article, it's a testament to the power of Israeli propaganda—faithfully parroted by our media here—that this straightforward factual account would sound even more exotic to most Americans than it does to Israelis.  As hard as it is for those of us who are paying attention to comprehend, many Americans really do believe that terrorists in Gaza attacked their "tiny, peace-loving neighbor" without any provocation or warning, for no reason other than their burning desire to kill as many Jews as possible.

So when your friends or relatives or coworkers say they don't see anything wrong with what Israel is doing, don't start banging your head against the wall or screaming at the top of your lungs or weeping openly, as natural as any of those responses might be.  Just try to remember that they've reached a perfectly reasonable conclusion based on the fantasies they've been fed—and then do whatever you can to dispel those fantasies.

Comments

[SteveB]

History did not begin with the Qassam rockets. But for us, the Israelis, history always begins when the Palestinians hurt us...

I think this is the point behind those outlandish "If Seattle was under rocket fire from Vancouver" comparisons that our politicians are so fond of. It completely removes the rocket attacks from any context (and literally removes them, by a distance of 12,000 miles or so.) We're supposed to think of rocket attacks on Israel like a rocket fired by Canadians on downtown Seattle: as a literal "bolt from the blue", with no history to explain it.

Come to think of it, that's how they talked about the 9/11 attacks, too, so I suppose it's simply standard operating procedure.

[John Caruso]

Yes, that's definitely the key point. And that's why removing the context is always the first task of Israel's apologists.

Despite the many advantages the forces of evil seem to have, we hold the trump card (on this issue and so many others), because the facts are entirely on our side. When open-minded people learn what's really going on over there, either by seeing it for themselves or hearing objective accounts, they almost inevitably stop backing Israel; I've seen it over and over again. The hard part for us is just getting the truth out there, but it's getting easier all the time.

[KDelphi]

Here is a letter from the local "neo-kook", who always gets his letters printed in the tiny, supposedly "alternative" paper here, Dayton City Paper...he has sent me personal snail mail, with no return address, but, as I am used to him ranting back to MY letters, I know who it is (lol).He even called me at home once, and, said, "lets discuss this like adults"! I said, "How dare you call me at home! Send it to the paper!". lol idiot! Here goes (this is what I have to put up with---lol) { } are "mine"

"Israel: Go After Hamas!"

" Predictably, the UN Gen Sec, and various American and European politicians, and Islamo-Nazis sycophants in the Arab and Western media {MINE--he's covering all bases here, eh?}condemn Israel for defending itself after Hamas fired over 6000 rockets into Israel over the past several months. {pretty certain about those numbers over "past several months", eh?} That attitude will only engender more war in the future.{Yeah...?? How will an "attitude" engender more war, Barron?}

To paraphrase General George S. Patton {!!!}, the Israeli military should go after Hamas in Gaza like "crap through a goose" to total and complete victory over those Muslim Nazis. Until Palestinians in Gaza become as disenchanted with Islamic terrorists and extremists as the Germans became with Adolf Hitler, there will be no peace in the Middle East !!"

by William P. Barron, Jr. Fairborn {The "peace city" WPAFB---air force base}

I dont know what else to say about this guy, but, my city is FULL of them!

Just thought you might find William Six-Pack's analysis interesting. Or, as it did , in me, it may engender rage...

[SteveB]

Until Palestinians in Gaza become as disenchanted with Islamic terrorists and extremists as the Germans became with Adolf Hitler, there will be no peace in the Middle East !!

Wow. I guess the two exclamation points means he really means it.

WWII was really the first hit on the crack pipe for these folks. To them, every war is just another chance to get back the same high they got then. And since overwhelming military force worked so well in getting the Germans and Japanese to lay down their arms and become compliant cogs in the Empire, it should work for everyone else, right? This guy really thinks the Israelis are going to find the bunker where Khaled Meshaal has put a bullet through his head, and the rest of the Palestinians will then forget their prior allegiances and get busy trading sex for black-market penicillin, just like in the good old days.

[John Caruso]

I certainly understand your frustration, but he's not worth rage—it's just pathetic (not to mention highly amusing). Sorry to hear you're surrounded, though. There are always going to be hopeless nimrods like that around, but I retain my faith in humanity regardless; just lately I've heard several stories of dyed-in-the-wool rednecks becoming thinking human beings. So don't give up hope!

[KDelphi]

John--true--he's also pretty harmless, as far as I can tell. But, he's funny. I pick up the paper now, just to see if he or his (few) friends are there. I see his name, close the paper, tell Steve what he will have to say about a topic, and , he reads it to me! I'm so often right (even certain phrases!) that we laugh our asses off!

[KDelphi]

But, thinking about that--"harmless"--I guess that such hate is never harmless---or shouldnt be assumed to be....sorry.

[David ben Yaacov]

This hypocritical traitor to reason, democracy, and fellow Jews is disgusting. Force this dumbass to live in Sderot while rockets drop on your house. Israel must wipe out Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, and Al-Qaeda. This is about Israel's fight to survive and prevail against the terrorist Arab occupiers in Gaza, Samaria, and Judea. The "Palestinians" that historical lie, should be deported to Jordan. The irony is that the British imperialist 2 faced scum created Jordan from 80% of "Palestine". The people of Gaza voted for Hamas to lead them, therefore they are all legitimate targets in a war, they support them, they feed them, they smuggle weapons and hide terrorists for Hamas. Death to HAMAS!

[Andy]

Few points.
1) when you say that we take the rockets into sderot out of context, are you saying its ok to fire rockets into a town that may be once was yours? EVEN IF it WAS the case that the Israelis took the Palestinians land (which its NOT...learn your history..Jews have been there for 3000+ years way before anyone), does that make it right to shoot rockets? would it be OK for Native Americans to start bombing America since it used to be their land? or the Turks to start bombing the entire of what was once the Ottoman Empire? That logic just makes no sense.

2) I love hearing people say the pro Israelis have no idea whats really happening. First of all, DO YOU? are you THERE? I love how these people always say 'you cant believe what you read'...we can't?? It is ILLEGAL in America to report false news. ILLEGAL! And how else are we going to find out whats going on? I'm not gonna fly into Gaza to find out the truth...we rely on the news!!

3) this man comparing the Israelis to the Nazis has no base. The Nazis, like he said, went into a room and SHOT his grandmother. The Israelis are protecting the citizens of Gaza! Thats why they went in on the ground to begin with! If they weren't trying their best to protect the citizens, they would have obliterated Gaza from the air, but instead are risking their OWN soldiers to be surgical about the procedure and help prevent as many unnecessary casualties as possible. Hamas uses the citizens as human shields. Period. What else is Israel supposed to do?? That brings me to point 4

4) what other options does Israel have? These people who say its all Israel's fault, they should cease fire...SHOULD THEY?? the last time there was a cease fire, Hamas re-armed, and was able to make better rockets that went further. Why should they allow that to happen again?? They've tried negotiating...when they let down the borders for a minute, there are suicide bombers that go to Jerusalem and blow up coffee shops. Israel is dealing with a group that has sworn its destruction. They do not recognize Israel's existance. Sadly, there is no negociating with that. The Palestinians messed up by electing Hamas. They need to get Fatah back in power so that the two sides can sit and talk it out like normal people.

[John Caruso]

David: I admit I'm surprised to hear that you were in favor of the Holocaust, but it seems clear from what you wrote (after all, by your logic the people of the Warsaw Ghetto were legitimate targets because they supported the Jewish resistance). I disagree with you completely, of course, but I suppose you're entitled to your opinion.

Andy: It is ILLEGAL in America to report false news. ILLEGAL!

If only.

what other options does Israel have?

Hmm, good question. Oh, wait, I know: acceptance of the peace offer that's unanimously supported by nearly every Arab country and every Palestinian group, including Hamas—not to mention the rest of the world, with the exception of Israel and (therefore) the United States? I understand that that option is deeply flawed since it doesn't allow for the theft of more Palestinian land, but still, it might be worth a try for this tiny, peace-loving country.

To the regulars: This posting got picked up indirectly on CNN (it's listed in the "From the Blogs" section in another article about Kaufman). Thus the sudden influx of terrorist supporters. So the chances they'll be coming back to view any responses are about nil, and it's probably not worth your time to respond. But if the urge strikes, knock yourselves out.

[Harold M]

I consider myself a Distant Ocean irregular, but admitting as much could lead to terrible jokes at my expense.

Zionists would do well to consider that the loudest American exponents of zionophilia can and do switch over to judeophobic demonization without missing a beat. They'll do it en masse the minute their leaders no longer consider Israel useful. Those leaders care for nothing but power in their own bailiwicks. History is very clear on that and on the utility of one elite to another; in particular those elite who make support for them a galling, expensive proposition.

[SteveB]

The Israelis are protecting the citizens of Gaza!

Really, what more need be said?

[KDelphi]

John, as I said about CD---it is an honor to you, that you have hit a raw nerve.

PS--apparently, they didtn read your past posts to know that , yes, you have been there

[Andy]

John,
If only the peace offer would work...
The Israelis have NEVER been after the Palestinian land. The only time they've ever gotten it (Golan Heights for instance) is when they were attacked first. Show me one time in history when Israel attacked anyone unprovoked. They never ever have. Ever! They are a nation that only wants peace and the acceptance of them as a nation. Since their neighbors dont recognize them as a nation and have SWORN its destruction, it wont happen. The Palestinians have rejected many proposals for their own land. They were given in 1947 a huge majority of the land (what became Jordan and Syria and Lebanon) and Israel was given a sliver, but they insisted on more violence and thought they deserved the whole bit of what was controlled by Britain. They wont stop until Israel doesn't exist. That is Hamas' goal, and that is why Israel must do what it is doing to protect its own existance. If you side with Hamas, you are not only siding with (this is a fact, not debateable) a terrorist organization but with the idea that Israel should not exist. If that is your stance, then you are on the right side.

[Donald Johnson]

Oh my goodness. I didn't think it was physically possible to achieve that error density--if I were you, John, I'd be worried that some comments in this thread might become a misinformational black hole and suck down all of cyberspace.

[John Caruso]

Andy: Welcome back.

The Israelis have NEVER been after the Palestinian land. ... They are a nation that only wants peace and the acceptance of them as a nation.

And yet a comprehensive peace offer that gives Israel full recognition by dozens of Arab countries and asks only that they give up their desire for Palestinian land is rejected out of hand—without even a counter-offer or any kind of negotiation (and in fact the Israeli response to the initial offer in 2002 was to invade the West Bank). That's rather at odds with your characterization, isn't it?

Look, you seem like a reasonable person, but you're not arguing reasonable positions. Saying that Israel has "NEVER been after the Palestinian land" or that it "only wants peace" is just absurd—surely you must recognize that. If not, how would you explain Israel's settlement policy in the West Bank? And what do you have to say about the notion of "facts on the ground"? As in Ariel Sharon's statement after a Palestinian attack on Israeli military and security forces in the occupied West Bank town of Hebron:

Visiting the scene yesterday, Mr Sharon said Israel must "exploit the opportunity to create new facts in the field and create contiguity" between Kiryat Arba and the settlements inside Hebron.

Note also his characterization of the killing of 12 Israeli soldiers and police as an "opportunity" which needs to be "exploited" by Israel to steal more Palestinian land. In exactly the same way, Israel sees the rockets fired by Hamas as an "opportunity" to be exploited, which is why it violated the cease-fire on November 4th—to make sure there'd be more of them, thus justifying the invasion.

You'd also need to explain how the fact that Israel has been the first to violate cease-fires 79% of the time illustrates a desire for peace. Or how building a wall that dives miles into the West Bank (rather than building it on the Green Line, or within Israel itself) shows that Israel has no designs on Palestinian land.

So as I say, I think you're arguing in good faith, but nonetheless what you're saying is completely at odds with reality. I've met many Israeli activists who honestly believe they're doing the right thing by defending Israel, but I'd encourage you to look at what Israel has actually done over the past century with an open mind and a critical eye and ask yourself if you're really on the right side of this issue. Amira Hass's article is a good start, or you might want to try reading one of Israeli historian Ilan Pappe's books.

(And in answer to one of your other questions, yes, I have been to the West Bank and Gaza—and Israel as well—so I know what I'm talking about not just based on the kind of factual information I've presented here, but firsthand knowledge.)

[KDelphi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rGOWkWYqJ4

This is a video that a friend (online) sent me...I suppose that someone wil say that it is fake...its not...

[Duncan]

I liked that claim that it's illegal in the US to report "false news". In fact, FOX News went to court to defend its right to report falsehoods ... and won.

I know you were being ironic with your "If only." I don't want the State to decide what is "true news" and what is "false news." If only it were so simple, to be able to tell true from false, settle it in court, and punish the liars. But it wouldn't work out that way in practice. That's why we have freedom of speech and freedom of the press here. It bothers a lot of people, but I still think it's better to err in the direction of freedom of speech as much as possible. (I'm currently reading an interesting book on the everyday language of white racism, and the author seems to lament that the US goes much further than most other countries in permitting unpleasant material to be published. Especially on the Internet, where people can read racist or other "hate" material that would be illegal to publish in their own countries. I'm working on a reply that will argue against her position.)

[cemmcs]

Oh, wait, I know: acceptance of the peace offer that's unanimously supported by nearly every Arab country and every Palestinian group, including Hamas—not to mention the rest of the world, with the exception of Israel and (therefore) the United States?

This is from Wikipedia:

However, within Palestine itself the Sunni Islamist political party Hamas, the elected government of the Palestinian territories, is deeply divided, with its officials making both highly supportive and highly negative statements.[3][1] Israeli officals have made a variety of responses, both positive and negative.[4] Shiite political party Hezbollah rejects the initiative.[1] Members of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas' military wing, committed the Passover Massacre on March 27, 2002 during the Beirut Summit.[5] The bombing as well as other attacks lead to a deeper escalation of the al-Aqsa Intifada[6] and derailed the initiative.[7] As of 2009, the initiative has remained dormant with Palestinian and Israeli leaders unable to move further.[1]

[John Caruso]

cemmcs: Ismail Haniyeh and Khaled Meshal have both said (and recently, at that) that Hamas is willing to accept a long-term peace with Israel on the 1967 borders, which is the core of the Arab Peace Initiative. In fact I'd assume this was one of Israel's motivations in breaking the truce with Hamas on November 4th and manufacturing a confrontation (just as they did in 2002, when the initiative was first introduced). In any case, the point is that Israel can have peace if it's willing to stop trying to take Palestinian land.

Also, Wikipedia is great for articles on particle physics or the Rolling Stones, but it's all but useless for any controversial political topics—and especially anything related to Israel. As organized as the hasbara army is about making sure there's someone posting pro-Israeli comments at every major web site, they're even more devoted to making sure no inconvenient facts make it into Israel-related Wikipedia articles. I know this from long, bitter, pointless experience trying to get even the tiniest corrections into some of those articles (search my site for "Wikipedia" for some of that history, if you're curious). For instance, the claim that it was suicide bombings that "derailed the initiative" is pure (Israeli government) POV—supposedly anathema on Wikipedia, but rife in these articles. Another example: the Wikipedia page for Jerusalem is continually checked and cleansed of the concept of "Israeli occupation"; in the current article, the only uses of "occupied" or its derivations in the text are "the occupation of Ophel", "Occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem by Jordan", and "the land currently occupied by the Church of the Holy Sepulchre." Hilarious. This despite multiple UN Security Council resolutions containing unambiguous designations of the "Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem."

On Wikipedia the most persistent person wins, no matter what their viewpoint might happen to be. So you should no more accept what it says on political topics than you'd trust whoever happened to write the last comment on a blog.

[cemmcs]

John Caruso

Thank you for the information but I would have preferred it without the sarcasm.

[John Caruso]

???

I'm sorry if I've offended you, but there was no sarcasm intended (and I'm not even sure where you'd feel you're seeing it).

[ms_xeno]

I have made Harold M's point to others in the past, to no avail. I guess it's something people just need to figure out on their own. Which is what I did, too, come to think of it. Still, I'd save my friends and loved ones the time delay involved, if I could...

John, I NEVER get picked up by CNN. Can I have your autograph ?

[John Caruso]

It's not as big a deal as it may sound; CNN uses Sphere (an automated service that shows related blog links after articles) and I just happened to win the indexing lottery. So it's just a vote of confidence from some server at Sphere, not an actual flesh-and-blood human being at CNN.

Still, I salute this anonymous, hard-working server; may its RAM be ever sufficient and its CPU upgrades plentiful!